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Single patrol and threat of assault

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lonerider
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Re: Single patrol and threat of assault

Post by lonerider » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:58 am

Victor wrote:In Met, Special Constables are not allow patrol on their own, they have to pair up with a PC or PCSO, I just don't understand, they are full trained and got the PPE, why they can't do the single patrol and PCSOs have to do it? Fair or unfair!

Fair

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Re: Single patrol and threat of assault

Post by PCSO Mickyboy » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:17 pm

Well bear in mind that the SC's are not always on duty like us and bear in mind they do day jobs etc
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Re: Single patrol and threat of assault

Post by typecastboy » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:21 pm

lonerider wrote:
Victor wrote:In Met, Special Constables are not allow patrol on their own, they have to pair up with a PC or PCSO, I just don't understand, they are full trained and got the PPE, why they can't do the single patrol and PCSOs have to do it? Fair or unfair!

Fair
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Threats to 'strip and set fire to officer'

Post by falkor » Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:22 pm

27 January 2010
By Stef Hall, Crime Reporter
A lout whose gang threatened to strip a police worker and set fire to her has been banned for five years from the Lancashire area he terrorised.
[img]http://policecommunitysupportofficer.co ... OBAIRD.jpg[/img] Lyndon Paul Baird
The young Police Community Support Officer was cornered by a group of hooded teens while patrolling the Broadgate area of Preston on the lookout for firework nuisance.

Lyndon Paul Baird, 18, of Christchurch Street, Preston, said he would burn her after another gang member had threatened to strip her naked.

Baird was fined £50 with £15 costs and a £15 victims' surcharge after pleading guilty to a public order offence at Preston Magistrates' Court.

The magistrates bench then slapped a Criminal Anti-social Behaviour Order on Baird, who is a known member of a group of young criminals who call themselves the Broadgate Riot Squad.

Baird is banned from Broad-gate, Avenham, Frenchwood and Penwortham except to travel home or to appointments down a designated route.

He must not possess open alcohol in a public place and is banned from associating with other members of the group.

PC Wayne Marsden, area police manager for Broadgate, said: "Our colleague was on patrol trying to stop firework nuisance in the Broadgate area when she came across a local park where youths had clearly been drinking.

"As she tried to pour some of the alcohol away she was threatened. "The group threatened to strip her naked and set her on fire.

"One then pulled a firework from his pocket and held it to her.

"Luckily she was not hurt but she was very shaken
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Re: Single patrol and threat of assault

Post by ANTHONY C » Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Very real problem that the government and authorities will ignore i am sure, alot of bloggers will say that this is not a regular accurance TRUE however 1 case is more than enough as far as i am concernered, food for thought!
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Re: Single patrol and threat of assault

Post by steve999 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:06 pm

:slwo: That will teach him, £80 fine and a badge of honour! :slbx:

If anyone threatens any public staff then the judge should come down hard on them.....Prison, Prison, Prison. That will set an example for others to think about.

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Re: Single patrol and threat of assault

Post by ANTHONY C » Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:36 am

Yeah i agree but there are so many reason why we should be double crewed and to be honest this subject is getting abit boring now, but i was accused whilst i was on my own i hasten to add of feeling someone up totally untrue, if i had another officer with me that would not have been said, i was investigated and found to be innocent, being investigated was not a nice thing because you think what if they think i have done this horrible crime and i could of ended up being sacked if they believed it all because they want us to lone patrol, if there is a possibilty of you being sacked for lone patrolling then i say no we should not lone patrol.
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Re: Single patrol and threat of assault

Post by overthinker1977 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:13 pm

The below text is purely ficticous and any resemblance to real life what-so-ever is entirely co-incidental.

Today, cycle patrol near school. 800 kids inside. Rumours of a big fight occuring on the park after school and already couple of scuffles IN the school. So a load of us turn out to move these groups on etc. I see a load gathering in the park so I ride up and tell them to move immediatly or be arrested for public order/prevent breach of peace.... I don't tell them it would be ME just that generally they'd get locked up. I knew the bobbies would as well with the intel we recieved. They start going and a CBM joins me doing the same.
Start rounding people up and moving groups on... its a bit tense for a 30 mins but we manage to calm things down.
I'm riding back to the nick when I see a group which looks like trouble... you know, the way they move, looking around to see if anyones watching, posture etc... I watch them and one of the lads throws something at a bus thats driving past and something splashes off the side of it. Well I'm thinking I'm not having any of that I decide to have a word with said young male. I cycle after him keeping him in sight the whole time, his mates tell him to run but I'm on bike so its a lame idea really. I catch up with him in seconds and tell him to stop running because I'm on a bike and its pointless. He stops. I begin to dismount but then he runs off again... I cycle after him and tell him to stop or he's going to get hurt, not because I mean to do hurt him in any way but because saying that so directly normally makes people comply, wrong situation I guess, wrong person. He carries on but stops at the end of the street before walking around me, I do a tight 360 degree spin on the bike and off he goes again! I can't believe the cheek of it... I'm angry and I tell him to stop now or he will get hurt in a firmer tone.... he doesn't so whilst I'm riding I grab his sleeve and he's STILL pulling so I push him against a wall to stop him from running. Using the wall as a friction point. At this point I'm thinking that I've used too much force but I'm comitted to it so I have to deal. He's still trying to pull away when he's joined by the rest of his mates. I can't count them because there are so many... More then 10 easily. Possibly closer to 20-30. I know this isn't good especially when they're all shouting "get your hands off him" and looking very angry. I realise I'm in trouble so I ask for another patrol to join me but realise I don't know the name of the street so I give a quick rough description. I then realise I'm on a tiny, hidden back street and this group is blocking my exit. I pick my bike up and with lads sleeve in hand I walk through the crowd towards the street so its more visible to the main road and the patrol that I've heard coming on the radio. All of a sudden the lad slips through his jacket and starts trying to run... I grab his collar but in the process I may have hit him (not hard) in the head or face. He pushes me away and I trip over my bike but manage to roll with it and regain my footing immediatly.
I grab the lads sleeve again and the group decends.... Now I AM in trouble.
Fortunatly I see yellow jackets running in my direction. The group runs away. I'm happy but panic as I realise I've over done the use of force. At least in legal terms. I'm quite happy that its not in immoral use of force so I don't feel guilty.
Lads details taken in PC's PNB.... No further action taken... I intend to speak with school and parents.


Thoughts on above general situation? Bear in mind its theoretical and didn't really happen... its just an example of what might happen written in a realistic context.
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Re: Single patrol and threat of assault

Post by brianb » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:44 pm

Theoretically speaking - you got in way out of your depth.

Also, think about the public's perception of telling someone that they are going to get hurt.

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Re: Single patrol and threat of assault

Post by Gualsa » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:51 pm

Overthinker, perhaps you should write a book or something. I was getting into it. When is the sequel? :slhi:

With regards to the issue, as far as I could gather there was no indictable offence comitted so no reason to go OTT on the issue. No reason for the PCSO to use the term "or you will get hurt", no reason to use force to hold the lad there, no power to detain on these grounds and possibly no powers to use force for the purpose of detaining (depending on the force of course).

If this officer got hurt he/she brought in on him/herself.

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Re: Single patrol and threat of assault

Post by overthinker1977 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:10 pm

Good job I'm not a PCSO then! Maybe I will write in my book that my character learns his lesson but stills feels the frustration at little $hits getting away with stuff like that.
How would you reprimand a young person throwing something at a bus?

EDIT: I'm still debating internally if it was the right thing morally to do. Aside from legalities... Should he be allowed to get away with it? How could that have been dealt with differently?? End of the day he was being a little scum bag.

EDIT: Just to add. I AM a member of the public, I AM joe bloggs... If I see some lad throw something at a bus I WANT my community police / police to be able to tackle it. I DON'T WANT him to get away with it.
I say well done to that officer and it would be a shame if he got the sack or owt.

Theoretically speaking of course...
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Re: Single patrol and threat of assault

Post by Gualsa » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:57 pm

overthinker1977 wrote: How would you reprimand a young person throwing something at a bus?
Depends if its a one off or if he is a regular trouble maker. If the first I would have a traffic officer speak to him and his parents explaining the danger of throwing items at moving vehicles.
If he is a regular I would stick him on an Acceptable Behaviour Contract with a curfew imposed. making sure the school was on board as well. Perhaps making sure officers were on the gate on a regular basis watching him as he walks home, putting restrictions on who he hangs out with, perhaps he only shows off amongst certain friends etc etc.

There is no hard and fast rule. Every kid and all circumstances are different. Problem solving is exhausting!

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Re: Single patrol and threat of assault

Post by overthinker1977 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:46 am

How do you get him to stop if he refuses? THATS the scenario. All his mates laughing the useless 'police man' who can't touch him?
I appreciate your answers though.
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Re: Single patrol and threat of assault

Post by Gualsa » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:07 pm

overthinker1977 wrote:How do you get him to stop if he refuses? THATS the scenario. All his mates laughing the useless 'police man' who can't touch him?
I appreciate your answers though.
There is always the danger of that and to be fair most high school teachers have proably been in that situation many times. They used to have powers to deal with the kids like the bobbies used to have as well. These days the kids know their rights and they wont always listen and you cant make them.
I say let them laugh. At some point he will do something he can be touched for and then you get the last laugh when he is in hand cuffs in the back of the police car.

But, yes I agree. Its frustrating. :slna:

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Re: Single patrol and threat of assault

Post by typecastboy » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:29 pm

Maybe I'm missing the point here, but if I was in this situation. I would definately apply for an ABC with the council, and I would have detained him, and called for a unit. I know a few officers who would at the very least arrest for non-permanent criminal damage, if not some other laws of endangering a bus. Speaking from an STT perspective that is.
____________________________________________
July 2008 - Passed Papersift
Oct 2008 - Day 1 AC
Nov 2008 - Passed Day 1
Nov 2008 - Day 2 Fitness/Medical - Passed
Jan 2009 - Start Training in Sidcup
Mar 2009 - On Borough

SINGLE PATROL IS THE WAY FORWARD

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