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all in the day of a PCSO ...
"the psychological impact of racking it is not to be underestimated"
introduction: jimbo a member of national-PCSOs from 2004, he has seen pretty much every topic that has gone on and is a VETERAN MEMBER
national-PCSOs interview falkor: this is making history
jimbo: [laughing] you’re joking
falkor: have you got anybody in the background listening in to this, they’re not snitching are they?
jimbo: no no there’s no one else here, just me
falkor: your grandmother’s there
jimbo: sorry?
falkor: is your grandmother there listening?
jimbo: no why?
falkor: I can hear someone shuffling in the background
jimbo: no that was me closing the door, to make sure that there’s no one else here
falkor: here I was going to say to you, are you religious?
jimbo: errrr why?
falkor: cause you’ve had that wooden cross ever since you’ve joined the site
jimbo: ah yes yes
falkor: that is a crucifix
jimbo: yes that is, yes. I tried to register on your HATO site and someone else had taken it
falkor: oh my god YOU SAW THAT?
jimbo: oh yeah yeah
falkor: because I thought that was very strange that they’d pick that
jimbo: yeah I’m with you on that
falkor: and what was even spookier was, after a couple of weeks somebody registered with the name of ‘kipper’ that really chilled me that did
jimbo: well I saw that as well
falkor: cause I thought that was our mate Dave
jimbo: yeah I PM’d Dave to find out, but it wasn’t him
falkor: not before I’d announced to the elite members “HE’S HERE!”
jimbo: so are you recording this yet?
falkor: I started recording as soon as the phone started ringing, that’s why there was a delay
jimbo: ah
falkor: did you notice that there was a sort of a delay there? A 10 second delay?
jimbo: right I’ll have to be careful then
falkor: what you haven’t started yours yet?
jimbo:
falkor: are you recording it or am I?
jimbo: I thought you were recording it
falkor: you said you were going to do it
jimbo: I’m trying to but my plumwickle doesn’t fit it doesn’t seem to want to pick up what anyone else says, only what I’m saying
falkor: but you’ve got plenty of experience on the old contemp notes haven’t you?
jimbo: yeah I’m used to doing that kind of thing
falkor: where?
falkor: how?
jimbo: this is supposed to be YOUR interview
falkor: nobody does contemp notes nowadays!
jimbo: Mine’s from a previous experience from working outside the job
falkor: contemp notes?
jimbo: yeah similar stuff when I worked for the media
falkor: oh I see
jimbo: I’m used to having to copy everything down
falkor: so have you ever done contemp notes in the Met?
jimbo: no no
falkor: I tell you what, I have
jimbo: I’m guessing this is before tape recording days?
falkor: yeah but you can also use it DURING tape recording days and many a time people have queued up for the “taped interview room,” to be told ‘listen mate they’ve got a 40 minute interview in there’ and do you know what they say?
jimbo: go on
falkor: contemp notes! Have you not heard this before?
jimbo: I’ve seen it done inside cells years ago and recently. Actually a youth I arrested refused to come out and had been very violent, so he was interviewed through the wicket of the cell and that was contemp notes
falkor: but they’ve got to initial every answer
jimbo: well they offered it all to him but ….
falkor: so what is that worth?
jimbo: I guess it’s not worth a lot
falkor: that is absolutely useless that is Jimbo!
jimbo: well it was nice watching it because by that point, I’d handed it over for the CID to deal with so
falkor: well what I was going to say was, people who are used to taking contemp notes – you’ve gotta be kind of at ease doing it y’know – it’s no good if you’ve never done it before really, so a lot of the old sweats if they find there’s a queue for the “taped interview room,” they say “that’s alright we’ll do contemp notes” because they’re at ease doing it, they’ve done plenty of contemp notes before. It’s hard work mind you, it’s bloody laborious to be honest, but if you’re looking at an hour’s queue for the “taped interview room,” there might actually be more than 1 job queued up for it, I’ve seen this done before where they say, “Right! Contemp notes” and they go off to some other room somewhere where there’s no tape recorder – have you not experienced that?
jimbo: the thing is, you know what it’s like in the Met now. It’s very rare that I get to do a tape recorded interview, most of the stuff we get is handed over now
falkor: right
jimbo: so I can probably count on one hand the amount of interviews that I’ve done in the last year
falkor: oh you’re saying that you are handing the stuff over
jimbo: yeah
falkor: to who?
jimbo: CID or hand over team – most of what we do is domestic – it’s going to the CSU automatically nowadays
falkor: yeah – here I saw a marvellous photo of you the other day
jimbo: oh nice
falkor: you and Taffy
jimbo: was that on Dave’s site?
falkor: with Peel House behind
jimbo: on Dave’s site?
falkor: no on national-PCSOs and I noticed that you had the whistle chains on
jimbo: well of course
falkor: you say “of course,” but how many senior officers have you seen wearing tunics and it’s the first thing I always think to myself, “no whistle chain”
jimbo: but it’s still an appointment
falkor: and it looks absolutely abominable don’t you think?
jimbo: well it’s still an appointment – someone should pick them up on it
falkor: but they just don’t seem to have these whistle chains – I think it looks so dire. You and Taffy looked absolutely brilliant, was that at your passing out parade?
jimbo: that was mine yeah
falkor: so Taffy turned up in his uniform
jimbo: yeah I made him
falkor: what a total geezer, I’ve got to say I did enjoy the photograph
jimbo: well you should have been there
falkor: I thought “yeah WHISTLE CHAINS!” really good and the top hats as well of course
jimbo: and they’re talking about stopping the passing out parade soon, which I think will be a mistake
falkor: everybody had top hats and whistle chains?
jimbo: well apart from the senior officers yeah
falkor: [laughing] I bet they didn’t have ‘em did they?
jimbo: [interrupting] falkor, I want to talk you about the early days of the site when it first started as national-PCSOs
falkor: you were there!
jimbo: I was there yeah
falkor: yes you were
jimbo: but then it went over to police community support officer dot com
falkor: oh yeah, the old old forums for national-PCSOs
falkor: they’re actually still there y’know, but I changed the name of them to national-PCSOs/nationalpcsos whereas before, it was national-PCSOs/phpBB2 y’know
jimbo: yeah
falkor: but I had to change it or else people would be slotting onto that no matter what, so I had to change it to stop people doing that, but the whole reason it went onto police community support officer dot com, was because of the speed of everything
jimbo: I remember those days well and I think I PM’d you about it saying I couldn’t log onto the site for a long time
falkor: it was getting bad wasn’t it? But the irony of it is, I think they’ve virtually put all that to rights y’know – it’s a joke isn’t it?
jimbo: yeah but too little too late I guess
falkor: yeah it is
jimbo: what made you start the site anyway?
falkor: you can’t ask me that Jimbo!
jimbo: I can ask you that go on – you’re being interviewed here, what made you start the site?
falkor: oh what a crippler, WELL I think I was on ‘OFF DUTY’ in those days, ever been on that?
jimbo: yeah I’ve seen you on there a few times as well
falkor: oh my god I tell you what, I absolutely loved that site – when I first saw that site I couldn’t believe how good it was. Because it was so slick y’know, but those forums I’m talking about are gone now
jimbo: silence
falkor: do you know what I’m talking about?
jimbo: yes
falkor: and I thought …. What …. Are … they …. Doing? Because they had a move as well and they started some other forums and I thought “WHY?” why have they done this? What the hell for? And if you go onto ‘OFF DUTY’ now, there’s a little text link that says “Old forums” have you ever noticed that?
jimbo: yes
falkor: and do you know what happens if you click that now?
jimbo: it doesn’t go anywhere
falkor: oh you’ve seen that – it used to go to the old forums, but obviously they ran out of flippin lease or whatever, but those old forums I thought were so good and they had so many good characters on there and of course, as soon as you have a move like that, unless you copy all the contents over, which they didn’t do….
jimbo: you have a severe loss of characters
falkor: they started from day one Jimbo!
jimbo: I know I was a member on there
falkor: you had to register again didn’t you?
jimbo: Well I stopped going there for a long time
falkor: oh same as me
jimbo: but you haven’t been on there for a long time have you. I’ve still got a PM in my outbox waiting for you to read it. In fact, looking at the computer I sent it last January
falkor: I think I did see it actually, but the thing is though Jimbo, you’re limited and if you’re going to say, “I haven’t got enough minutes in the day,” that is good isn’t it?
jimbo: I think so yeah
falkor: do you know what I mean? And quite honestly that ‘off duty’ thing to me, I thought that was so good and I started thinking when PCSOs first came in, “THEY should have a version of OFFDUTY” that they can go to, that is kind of like ‘protected,’ because obviously a lot of PCs are or were hostile – I wouldn’t say a lot actually, but there are enough PCs who are hostile to make it SEEM as if everybody’s against them
jimbo: a vocal minority yes
falkor: you don’t need many people to start sounding off and all of a sudden the impression is, that everybody’s against you – do you know what I mean? So I did a few searches on google and yahoo and others and I thought, “Where is the PCSO version of this?” I mean anybody can go to the Specials version can’t they?
jimbo: yes
falkor: if you go onto that Specials version of ‘OFF DUTY’ then – well I mean what a fantastic environment for Specials, it’s so PRO SPECIAL well obviously isn’t it?
jimbo: it is but you were the first one to do a site for PCSOs
falkor: yeah
jimbo: quite an achievement, but as far as I’m aware, you were a response team SGT weren’t you?
falkor: I was yeah, I loved it yeah
jimbo: so how did you get to know about PCSOs? Did you hear them on the radio or did you get to work with them at all?
falkor: I think I just read about it on ‘OFF DUTY’ to be quite honest Jimbo
jimbo: [laughing]
falkor: I think I did y’know and I obviously read a lot of the anti stuff and this is what started me thinking. I thought well if any PCSOs come on here, they’re not going to stand a flippin chance they’ll be just annihilated in 2 seconds. So I thought what I’ll do is I’ll find out where it is and I spent a few weeks looking and in the end I just came to the conclusion, “there’s nothing!” there isn’t anything !
jimbo: there’s still not a lot about – there’s Jimmy_bobby’s site – but there’s still not a lot of sites
falkor: have you seen the MET version?
jimbo: well yeah that was set up by a colleague who I used to work with
falkor: oh right!
jimbo: he was my PCSO partner for a long time
falkor: the intranet one?
jimbo: yes
falkor: cause that got really lively didn’t it?
jimbo: well they’ve closed it down now
falkor: oh you’re joking
jimbo: no I’m not joking, they said there wasn’t enough supporting posts – there was a lot of outside people coming in flaming it basically
falkor: oh I’m sorry to hear that
jimbo: it was very sad and especially sad as you think well “we know who you are”
falkor: yeah!
jimbo: there’s a shoulder number on every post
falkor: absolutely
jimbo: they were still silly enough to come in and have a pop
falkor: when did that close down then?
jimbo: about 6 months ago
falkor: ooo I’m sorry to hear that Jimbo. I honestly didn’t know
jimbo: well it is sad isn’t it
falkor: but you could only go back a month on it couldn’t you, do you remember?
jimbo: they didn’t have the memory, they had to keep deleting them
falkor: oh that ‘memory excuse’?
jimbo: [laughing]
falkor: do you believe that?
jimbo: that’s what they say
falkor: that was the reason was it?
jimbo: have you ever worked with PCSOs before then?
falkor: yeah loads of PCSOs at Twickenham
jimbo: did they used to man up teams?
falkor: no, what happened was they were on Safer Neighbourhoods and there was a directive that came out that said PCSOs would come into the control rooms to find out who the people were who were working in the Control Rooms /familiarisation stuff like that … but they never did it on my team anyway – but when I read that I thought “Brilliant!” this is gonna be good y’know, mind you there aren’t many control rooms in the MET left now is there?
jimbo: most have gone to Metcall
falkor: that’s right. Have you been into one of those Metcall places yet?
jimbo: yeah I have. It’s …. Scary
falkor: which one did you go to?
jimbo: Hendon
falkor: and are they wearing uniforms in there?
jimbo: no
falkor: they’re NOT wearing uniforms?
jimbo: well when I went in there they weren’t
falkor: so they’ve got civilians in there who are wearing plain clothes?
jimbo: well most of them had civvy tops on – y’know the civilian striped shirts but most of them were wearing jeans with that
falkor: well I think that’s fine don’t you?
jimbo: I think if you’re not going to be seen by the public, then it’s not a problem
falkor: but the plans for C3i – I mean they’ve got their website and everything – are, they wear uniform – blue shirt, epaulettes, tie, the lot
jimbo: yeah that seems like a waste of funds to me
falkor: well it’s all about keeping the members of staff disciplined and rank structure and breaks that are regulated, stuff like that
jimbo: you left before the transfer to Metcall
falkor: well this is the thing Jimbo, I always thought I’d like to be a civvy cad operator, I really would, but the whole thing that attracted me to working in a Met control room as a civvy, was the fact that you could wear your own clothes!
jimbo: my borough has not gone to Metcall yet
falkor: right
jimbo: we’ve still got the Control Room supervisors and the cad operators who we have all known for years, worked alongside for years, they know everybody, we know everybody, we go out together. I think once we go to Metcall it will be very sad, because all of that team spirit is going to be lost
falkor: I totally agree, but you’re going to get an IBO aren’t you?
jimbo: well we’ve got an IBO already
falkor: already?! You’ve got both??
jimbo: we’ve got an IBO but we haven’t moved to Metcall yet
falkor: that is strange
jimbo: yeah it means that you have double the amount of officers in the control room [laughing]
falkor: yeah I’ve gotta say I’ve gone a bit rusty on what a flippin IBO is really
jimbo: I’m the wrong person to ask – we’ll have to ask our mutual friend, PC Pete, he’s worked with that for a long time
falkor: oh my god he works up at GT doesn’t he?
jimbo: he used to
falkor: oh right, what’s he doing now then?
jimbo: back out on the streets pretending to be a policeman again
falkor: is he?
jimbo: [laughing] yes
falkor: was that through his own choice?
jimbo: yeah basically they’re all going over to Metcall as well. IR is being taken over by Metcall and like many people, he’s jumped before he’s pushed, when he realised that Metcall might not be the ideal place to work
falkor: why?
jimbo: I think because of the change of working practices and there will be compulsory transfers into different areas – it’s difficult for travelling I know and the shift pattern is 12 hours shifts they work
falkor: yeah and I heard that there are very strict regimes operating under Metcall, I don’t know if it’s true
jimbo: I would imagine it must be
jimbo: but as long as we’ve still somebody on the end of a radio to help me out when we press the orange button I’m happy
falkor: well yeah. Are you on response then Jimbo?
jimbo: yeah yeah
falkor: quite happy doing that?
jimbo: for the moment yeah. I enjoy it and I’m in no rush to get off it. Have you always been response?
falkor: Errrrr [laughing] I applied for quite a few things [laughing] and been turned down for so much. I actually applied for Buckingham Palace, I thought, “I’ll have a few years on flippin Royalty” y’know
jimbo: oh yeah
falkor: But I REALLY got sold a kipper by this skipper up there who told me, “Oh don’t worry about the interview – all they want to know is what hobbies you do and what you watch on telly”
jimbo: [laughing]
falkor: oh dear oh dear I was so naïve honestly
jimbo: [laughing] I’m guessing that’s not what they asked you then
falkor: oh honestly Jimbo you should have been there mate. I was so naïve and I listened to this skipper and he was such a friendly fella too and I thought, “Oh what a nice bloke,” so of course I didn’t look anything up at all and the first question they asked me was what is SO30 or whatever the dept is for I99, do you know?
jimbo: Oh I’ve got no idea
falkor: This is what they said to me, they said something like, “right what is SO35?” or whatever the thing is for the Air Support Unit, I still don’t know now! So of course I said “I haven’t got a clue”
jimbo: [laughing]
falkor: and they just sat there and looked shocked
jimbo: [laughing]
falkor: so they said “India 99?”
jimbo: so I said oh India 99 oh right!
falkor: then they looked at each other as if to say, “Oh he should have known that one” anyway they then said, “When was the last time you called out I99?” and I said “I’ve never called out I99” and they said “WHAT?”
jimbo: [laughing]
falkor: and I said “I’ve never called ‘em out” and you could see from their faces that they just weren’t happy and that was just the start Jimbo – it just got worse and worse
jimbo: what an interview
falkor: I tell you what, they should have filmed it really
jimbo: of course you have worked different places, you worked for Surrey didn’t you?
falkor: yeah I’m back there again now, I’m back at the same nick that I was in in 2000 in the Met, working for Surrey, it’s really weird I tell ya – it’s so spooky
jimbo: do they still call you Sarge?
falkor: a lot of them DO! It’s crazy – one of them’s now a Sgt who was on my team as a PC and he comes in and people can’t understand what the hell he’s doing – he’s got 3 stripes up and he’s calling me Sarge and Sir and goodness knows what. Of course, the thing is though – when you’ve worked with someone for something like 5 years as a Sarge, you can’t help but call ‘em ‘Sarge,’ but he just goes overboard and another one does it as well and I really don’t know what to say here, because it’s so embarrassing y’know
jimbo: did you ask to go back to the same nick again?
falkor: no I didn’t really, they persuaded me – this Supervisor called me at home and said “Look I need somebody at Dorking” and they didn’t say it was going to be forever either, they just said we need you to cover somebody at Dorking and I said, “oh alright then” because I was actually working at Banstead at that time – so of course ever since that time – I don’t know 4 months ago – I’m still there now – and I’m loving it, absolutely loving it! I’m cycling to work everyday which I absolutely love – it takes about 20, 25 minutes to cycle and it’s right up this hill as well, so by the time that I get to the nick, I’m sweating buckets, go straight into the shower. Have a shower, put my uniform on and it’s just such a great regime
jimbo: I’m surprised that you didn’t join a sector team in the Met because there's so much cycling in them nowadays
falkor: well I said to my Personnel Manager Jimbo, 9 months before I left the Met, I said “I’m leaving the Met in 9 months, is there anything coming up civvywise?” And she said to me, “Oh I wish you’d have told me – I had no idea that’s what you were thinking of, it’s a shame you couldn’t have told me before” and I thought … wait a minute, there’s still 9 months to go here
jimbo: how much pre-warning does she need?
falkor: I know! Honestly I’m not making it up, so that’s it, I never heard another word from her
jimbo: that’s not really fair
falkor: I never heard another word from her and in the meantime in the Surrey Comet was a massive great advert asking for CAD staff for Surrey. So I kept on thinking she was going to pull me in the corridor, so I didn’t particularly make much of an effort, but I applied for this job as there were a number of vacancies going and of course I got an interview. The interview for that job was amazing I tell you, they kept on firing these questions at me about what would you do if this happened and what would you do if that happened and every time you answered one of their questions, they wouldn’t look you in the eye, they gave you no idea as to whether you’d got it right or not – and it was straight on with the next one
jimbo: bloody hell
falkor: yeah and of course I got a phone call a couple of days later saying, “We need you to start at Epsom.” Epsom was brilliant and of course I forgot that Epsom was a Met station! They still had the Met CAD Room there
jimbo: was it operational?
falkor: no no it was a Surrey station, but the Met had kept their CAD room there and I heard that Surrey Police got a bit funny about that in the end and said, “You’re going to have to leave” [laughing] because it was like they were doing them a favour and so I was there and the MET CAD room was there but it was just like a shell. You know you get all those boards with the call signs of the response cars written up on
jimbo: of course I do yes
falkor: all that stuff was up there and it’s still there now, because they still can’t decide what to do with it, they’ve done absolutely nothing with it Jimbo
jimbo: a junked CAD room
falkor: yeah
jimbo: hmmm we might need that one day, if METCALL goes topsy
falkor: here I’ve got to ask you about your wirless laptop, why have you got a WIRELESS laptop?
jimbo: I’ve only got one phone line in my house and it’s in an inaccessible place. If it’s wireless I can actually put my laptop on the table
falkor: does it work ok?
jimbo: some days
falkor: go on then, it’s got limitations has it?
jimbo: yes yes it doesn’t seem to have any logical reason but some days it doesn’t seem to want to work
falkor: well it would be better if it was wired up wouldn’t it?
jimbo: yeah I’d be happy with that
falkor: have you got the option of doing that?
jimbo: I have if I’m happy to string a wire half way across my house, which plainly I don’t want to do
falkor: you live in a house?
jimbo: well a flat
falkor: oh right
jimbo: a converted house, converted into flats
falkor: are you enjoying it?
jimbo: not bad not bad. I’m in South London so it’s noisy
falkor: but you’ve got loads of money coming through though as a MET PC
jimbo: [laughing]
falkor: you are getting loads of wedge but quite rightly too
jimbo: oh no you sound like one of the county mounties now
falkor: well it’s true though isn’t it, you’ve got all that ‘street danger’ to contend with
jimbo: I try and keep away from street danger
falkor: But when you think about your PCSO days … confrontation …. Versus confrontation as a PC Jimbo
jimbo: there’s a huge difference
falkor: go on then
jimbo: it’s different but I didn’t think it would be
falkor: yeah
jimbo: All the PCs I’ve talked to who were PCSOs, say exactly the same thing, that they thought they had a pretty good handle on what the job of a police officer was
falkor: right
jimbo: and then when they did it, they suddenly realised how far wrong they were and I think that was definitely the case for me – definitely the case
falkor: yeah?
falkor: You’ve been on loads of area car calls haven’t you?
jimbo: oh yeah but not anymore because I was there when we wrote off the area car
falkor: yeah but you’ve got another one
jimbo: yeah we’ve got another one but we haven’t got an area car driver now
falkor: [laughing] you’re joking!
jimbo: no no but there’s always talk in the Met about getting rid of the area car of course
falkor: oh that’d be a horror story, no they can’t do that, that’s outrageous
jimbo: I think that’s one of the few reasons for staying on response teams for many long term officers
falkor: who’s getting the next course?
jimbo: oooo that’ll be interesting to see who gets that
falkor: it’s not in the pipeline?
jimbo: well the course has come out and there’s been lots of people applying and of course there’s people who really want to do it and then there’s the guvnor’s favourites, so it will be interesting to see who gets it
falkor: blimey it sounds like it’s taking too long Jimbo
jimbo: well it’s not that much of a major deal, because if you’re working in a place like Plaistow you don’t get as many calls that need area cars
falkor: yeah but it’s a big thing on a team though
jimbo: it is, it is and it’s good to have an area car driver as well, as quite often they’re the unofficial APS usually aren’t they?
falkor: right and what is the car, is it a BMW? jimbo: yes
falkor: any Vauxhall Vectras?
jimbo: no, not at our nick
falkor: long gone?
jimbo: there are still some in neighbouring boroughs but my borough, we’ve got the BM
falkor: so BMs and Vectras, what else, is there a third one?
jimbo: traffic still run the old Omegas don’t they?
falkor: anything else? VW Golf?
jimbo: I haven’t seen one of those no
falkor: you’ve never seen a VW Golf area car?
jimbo: no, they ran one as a GTI at Colindale actually didn’t they
falkor: that was the one. That was the one I was thinking of yeah
jimbo: have you seen that one?
falkor: well they had one at Kingston and I just thought it looked too small y’know, but they seemed to like it
jimbo: well that was because of the acceleration, but I heard they had to to get rid of them
falkor: oh god right
jimbo: so why didn’t you apply for PCSO falkor?
falkor: I tell you what Jimbo, after reading all the stuff on the site, it appears to me that it’s a flippin hard job and although everybody says, “Oh PCSOs, they should have PCs instead,” but from what I’ve read it can be really hard graft, don’t you think so?
jimbo: I think many PCSOs are stuck between a rock and a hard place. You’re not a police officer, but you’re no longer a normal ‘so to speak’ member of the public.
falkor: well funny you should say that, because as a PC, if somebody gives you a load of mouth on the street you’re in a pretty powerful situation most of the time, to deal with it aren’t you? But I’ll never forget the time that we are at the back of my nick – all the cells were full – and we had this right flippin git who was giving us loads of mouth and do you know what, about ten times we could have nicked him and we were radioing through saying ‘where’s the next available spaces’ and they were saying “We’re finding out we’re finding out” but all the cells were full on surrounding boroughs too and I reckon that’s when you feel like a PCSO y’know
jimbo: [laughing]
falkor: because you can’t make the arrest – the bloke is s5 times ten, but what do you do with somebody who you want to arrest and they’re just standing there fronting you – have you been in that situation?
jimbo: I have had times recently where I know someone was arrested up town on aid and there was no Met stations to take him to
falkor: that is an awful thing that really is, but this is a PCSO thing as well, because they haven’t got a power of arrest under s5, they have to call a mobile unit down haven’t they?
jimbo: I know, I know
falkor: and is a mobile unit available?
jimbo: a lot of the time when I talk to PCSOs, we have got lots of new ones on my borough at the moment, and they say what do you say over the radio, to make it sound more attractive?
falkor: [laughing] but this is crazy – a lot of PCSOs can give s5 tickets can’t they?
Go to the first of 17 pages on pcsos-national, that records the acceleration of PCSOs to 16,000 personnel on the streets of England and Wales.
jimbo: yes
falkor: but does that work in practice?
jimbo: I can’t see how it does – no doubt you’ve seen the topics running on the site saying about it, but I cannot see how if someone is gobbing off to that extent that they need to be punished, that they’re going to agree to give their name and address, not get handcuffed and just stand there while someone takes their details
falkor: and another thing is, I do agree with the argument that these people should go into the Custody and get their dabs taken, get their DNA taken, photo, get it all on flippin file don’t you?
jimbo: yes, I agree
falkor: and all that lot is being bypassed, as soon as you give out one of these PNDs on the street – where’s their fingerprints then?
jimbo: I think a lot of the problem is that the PCSO scheme was so badly thought out
falkor: well who thought it up?
jimbo: well you tell me
falkor: I’d like to know who it was who actually put it on the table and why
jimbo: the thing that interests me, I look at the HATO scheme for example, they seem to be such a lot better thought out
falkor: well you know the control rooms on the motorways Jimbo? jimbo: yes
falkor: have you ever been to a Police Motorway Control Room?
jimbo: no no never have you?
falkor: Yeah years ago I went over to the old Heston Traffic Control, affectionately known by the TDT lot as “The Hut” and you do see photographs of these places, they’re very similar to a CAD room and I went over to the one at Heston a few times. Now I always assumed that when this HATO lot got on the road, that those control rooms were the Highways Agency control rooms.
jimbo: Me too
falkor: They’re not! They’ve got their own control rooms AS WELL! Totally separate, so you’ve still got the motorway police control rooms and the Highways Agency ones as well, I just found out about this 2 days ago, I was absolutely flabbergasted. I thought, “What on earth is all that about?!”
jimbo: I bet the taxpayer’s loving that
falkor: I couldn’t believe it. Obviously all the traffic officers know this because they find out from day 1, but people like you and me are just shell shocked to find that out Jimbo
jimbo: that is just shocking, just shocking
falkor: well one of our best members is going over to become a HATO isn’t he?
jimbo: of course Big-Si!
falkor: oh he’s done well there hasn’t he?
jimbo: he kept that one on the sly didn’t he?
falkor: well we’ve seen him in action in his Landrover through all those snowy mountains
jimbo: looks like it’ll be home from home for him
falkor: but I think he’s done a lot of work on his own though Jimbo. I don’t think he’s been doubled up, what was the situation when you were a PCSO?
jimbo: I spent a lot of time by myself as well
falkor: does that work ok?
jimbo: for me?
falkor: yeah
jimbo: I think it depends what kind of person you are. Obviously county mounties don’t have a lot of choice about it
falkor: yeah
jimbo: but the Met with their Safer Neighbourhoods and 1 PS, 2 PCs and 3 PCSOs there is of course always going to be somebody “left over”
falkor: but how do you work it – you’ve got no back up there, you’re walking through some estate on your own – how does that work?
jimbo: well you know, you just make a note of the road name whenever you go down there
falkor: [laughing] oh yeah I know that one – I’ve done that one alright
jimbo: Luckily I went back to my same old borough – so it was a lot easier for me, as I know my way around again and of course there’s the famous thing of doughnuts on the probationer when he/she cannot tell you where he or she is
falkor: you went back to the same borough where you’d been a PCSO?
jimbo: yes
falkor: you didn’t have any misgivings about that?
jimbo: absolutely not, no
falkor: did anybody try and give you pay back over that?
jimbo: no no funnily enough, actually the first person I arrested, my first ever arrest was somebody who a few months before came and gobbed off at me as a PCSO. He really gave me lip it was beyond a s5, but I hadn’t managed to get a unit down and as I say my first arrest was being called into the station office to arrest him and it happened to be the same guy
falkor: you are loving it Jimbo
jimbo: when I walked in there in my uniform and he saw me, his face just dropped and he went “Oh god not you”
falkor: [laughing]
jimbo: that is the best first arrest that you can have
falkor: oh well done you are absolutely loving it
jimbo: there was one question that I particularly wanted to ask you – there’s a lot of talk about this on the site, but what do you think the future is for PCSOs?
falkor: I think it’s going to rumble on and in fact I think at the moment, we’re in an acceleration situation here because we’re only half way to the 16,000 aren’t we?
jimbo: yes
falkor: the 16,000 is actually going to hit. It should’ve been 24,000, which is an absolute outrage to be quite honest – the government promised 24,000 why has that failed? Who’s gone back on that?
jimbo: exactly
falkor: That is a total con and all this about, “oh the Police Forces have said they don’t need that many PCSOs,” the Police Forces could have said that AT THE TIME
jimbo: they say what they’re told to say
falkor: so it’s just a CON, but to answer your actual question, for the time being we’re going to see a lot of growth – I think there’s going to be a massive acceleration – did you see that article on the “Kent PCSOs to double in 3 months” ?
jimbo: yes
falkor: there’s headlines in the local Kent papers, “KENT PCSOs to double in 3 months.” I think they’re going to double again – I think there’s going to be hundreds if not thousands more PCSOs flooding in and I think over the next couple of years, it’s going to reach a plateau and I think if you look to like 3 or 4 years time, there’s going to be a peak for PCSOs
jimbo: what about powers?
falkor: I don’t think it’s going to change, what do you think?
jimbo: to be honest, I can’t see how it can stay the same
falkor: go on then, why?
jimbo: I think that at the moment PCSOs are stuck in a hard place – they either need to completely accept that this is going to be a second tier policing and ultimately go along the route of giving powers to PCSOs, giving the kit to PCSOs or they need to scrap it and say no we want them for the community type thing, with NO enforcement. I think at the moment having the half way house is just too hard to work
falkor: well when you say the half way house Jimbo, you mean that every flippin Police Force has a different take on what they want their PCSOs to do, that’s what you’re saying isn’t it?
jimbo: yes of course
falkor: because there’s a lot of PCSOs who can actually give tickets for zig zag lines, did you know that?
jimbo: well Borough to Borough it even changes within the Met. Just walk from one postcode to another and you don’t have the same powers anymore
falkor: s59?
jimbo: seizing vehicles, that is a confrontational role as far as I’m concerned falkor: well you’ve got the power to do it. . . . nationally
jimbo: yep yep we’ve got the power to do it, but I think you have to be careful about using those
falkor: yeah
jimbo: by yourself – if you’re single manned on an estate in South East London and you know how short/ stretched it is, do you really want to wrestle someone for their car?
falkor: well certainly not on your own, that’s for sure
jimbo: exactly
jimbo Monday 7th May 2007 1700 - 1724
in 2008, saves were made of 17 pages from national-pcsos, comprising 2006 - 2007 material
falkor: no no I quite agree with you, but I tell you what the latest one is – this is when you do a check on somebody and it turns out they’ve got no insurance, or no licence, you can SEIZE THE CAR!!
jimbo: yeah we’ve been trying to do that a lot recently
falkor: I love that
falkor: you’ve been “trying to do that a lot” ?
jimbo: well of course in the Met, because it all goes to Charlton Car Pound, if the car pound’s full, they can only get a certain amount of cars they can take a day, or they say no
falkor: oh I didn’t know about that
jimbo: if you’re on LT or ND, the chances are you’re not going to get any cars taken away
falkor: oh what a shame
jimbo: it’s a real shame, because I actually like processing people. I don’t like giving tickets
falkor: well that is the ultimate process. If you can get that thing seized, they’ve got to pay what is it, £120 to get it out?
jimbo: exactly, plus a daily charge and they have to bring their insurance and MOT as well, so they have to be insured to be able to take their car away
falkor: well that’s what it is in theory, but in practise what it actually is – if you look on the back of the form, they can nominate a third party to pick the car up
jimbo: oh
falkor: so a lot of them do that because they literally aren’t insured, or they’re not insurable to be quite honest
jimbo: oh I didn’t look on the back of the form, I didn’t know that
falkor: yeah they’ve got to allow a nominated third party to go in there, but that third party has to be insured, so quite often it’s a recovery vehicle y’know
jimbo: yeah yeah
falkor: Here I was going to say to you - going back to September 2004 Jimbo, these are the people who you joined national-PCSOs with micky, Big Brother, Fat_Bloke, katalina and sueb, were the people you joined with!
jimbo: katalina’s the only one who’s not still about
falkor: actually I heard from her the other day
jimbo: crikey!
falkor: because you know that “White Light Group” that you celebrated joining?
jimbo: yeah
falkor: she actually replied to that, because you know a mass e-mail went out to the whole of the “White Light Group” people
jimbo: yeah
falkor: well she came back and said that she wanted to be removed from the whole site
jimbo: oh that’s sad
falkor: I think she’s moved on from being a PCSO
jimbo: I see
falkor: so you remember her anyway?
jimbo: yes I do that rings a bell. I remember a lot of people, a lot of people have moved on haven’t they?
falkor: it is a shame, a real shame but it’s not just limited to our forums, that happens to all forums
jimbo: yeah … I think there’s a lot of great new members coming onto here
falkor: what were the first forums you were on Jimbo?
jimbo: the first were ‘OFF DUTY’
falkor: was it?
jimbo: the old ‘OFF DUTY’
falkor: yeah and you saw people moving off from that even
jimbo: I hate to say it but OFF DUTY’s a lot more cliquey than national-PCSOs
falkor: who’s the bloke who runs it?
jimbo: Bernard
falkor: oh my god it is – you know I met him once?
jimbo: did you?
falkor: at Imber Court – only for about 10 seconds
jimbo: hasn’t he retired?
falkor: he’s retired yeah and I was going to meet him for drinks actually and he was sitting in one bar of Imber Court and I was sitting in another. We missed each other completely but we both happened to get up and go somewhere and he was walking out and I said, “Are you Bernard?” He turned round and said he’d been waiting for me and had to go, so that was that [laughing] but at least I saw him in the flesh
jimbo: guilty
falkor: yeah I’ve gotta say he doesn’t really get that involved on the site, well he never did really but you could at least PM him and he would reply, but he wasn’t a hands on admin was he?
jimbo: not as far as I know no
jimbo: but I think he had good moderators so he doesn’t need to
falkor: oh lovely bloke but I was always quite amazed by how little he ever got involved with it, he probably had other fish to fry y’know
jimbo: well you spend quite a lot of time on the site don’t you?
falkor: oh I can’t resist it I tell ya – I just can’t resist it Jimbo [laughing]
jimbo: What does your wife think about it?
falkor: well y’know that two timing thread we have on the site Jimbo?
jimbo: yeah
falkor: did you see what’s gone on there lately?
jimbo: no I’ve been away from home for the last 2 weeks
falkor: because I said to my missus, somebody on national-PCSOs has admitted that they started an affair two years ago and she said well so did you! you’re on that computer that’s your flippin affair!
jimbo: [laughing] but I think if you’re doing shift work, then to a certain extent it does give you extra time to be able to spend time on the sites
falkor: oh yeah
jimbo: if I’m on night duty then I’ve got the day off to do things by myself, but if I’m doing a day shift or if I’ve got days off, my missus is not happy if I spend time on the computer
falkor: when you say your missus, who’s that Jimbo?
jimbo: oh she doesn’t want to be part of this interview I think
falkor: are you married?
jimbo: no
falkor: is it coming up is it?
jimbo: oh don’t you start that
falkor: [laughing] before you know it you’ll have kids
jimbo: